Stock timelines

The place to for general Subbuteo threads.
User avatar
Focus On
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
Posts: 14164
Joined: 23 Dec 2004, 19:18
Location: Korova Milk Bar..Czechoslovakia

Stock timelines

Postby Focus On » 29 May 2017, 16:42

These fascinate me, i see it with Scalextric too, stuff 4 years out of date being relabeled and repackaged ect in 'of the moment' packaging
Love it, keeps me on my toes in both hobbies

no rules peeps, just business

still waiting, and wouldnt surprise me, to see an OHW in a lw box, factory issue...only 11 years apart
Bored to FLICK

User avatar
spudski
Grand Master
Posts: 2503
Joined: 14 May 2011, 17:42

Re: Stock timelines

Postby spudski » 30 May 2017, 09:18

Indeed Mark...over the years from collecting, more and more 'rules' seem to be 'broken'.

Unfortunately the PU site, whilst very informative, has become a bit of a collectors 'bible' where some collectors have read it and think these 'guide lines' are set in stone.

They forget SSG was a business and stock was used up, regardless of 'Timelines'.

The biggest thing I've noticed whilst collecting, is the period between 1974 and 1978.

So many collectors think that the 200+ range only appeared in the small splash box or window box.

This is not true. Whilst the SSG 'official Catalogue' didn't show a change in teams from the 190 of 1974 until the increase in 1978, it didn't mean certain teams weren't produced in that interim period.

For example...I've seen or owned all the Portuguese range of teams Refs 272- 280 in named long splash box.
Pretty much all the German range Ref 210-223 in named long splash box.

Lots of the Italian teams the same.

As well as various other teams from the 200+ range.

The common theme being...they were all named, stamped, typed or labelled. With no ref number unless the 500 series from Italy.

Types of figures, bases, discs...all over the place. The older stuff all turning up later than imagined.

I think the weirdest I've had in recent months, was a regular ref 100 in a window box, with late figure, base and disc, but all glued together using glue that looked bang out of the late 60's. A brown glue that was almost like rubber. A right mess.

As you say...Business...no rules...just guidelines.

lloydie1109
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
Posts: 1381
Joined: 02 Jan 2014, 09:27
Location: SHEFFIELD

Re: Stock timelines

Postby lloydie1109 » 30 May 2017, 10:05

the word 'Rules' seems to be used a lot, regarding certain things.

SSG/Waddingtons, produced lots of items, where, for various reasons packaging varied, as indeed did the contents.

In the period 1974-78 the UK saw so many strikes, shortages and so on, this resulted, in not only materials being short,
other aspects of business life were in turmoil. They like, thousands of other businesses had to make do with what they had,
this resulted in very many products being make from sub-standard materials and sent out in all forms of packaging, basically anything
that was available. SSG/Waddingtons, in the post Peter Adolph era, did not have any rules laid down as to what was sold in what, they just sold.

I know in the past collectors have said, such and such a product was made in such and such a year as the catalogue states it.
Quite often, teams, accessories etc where out many months before they appeared in a catalogue, or where never actually shown in catalogues.

It is very hard to say exactly when a product was introduced, and what was sold in what packaging, we can go on rough ideas, but to actually state dates is impossible

User avatar
Gullseye
Grand Master
Posts: 2874
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 18:41

Re: Stock timelines

Postby Gullseye » 30 May 2017, 10:48

You also have to remember that once purchased, kids often put teams back in the wrong boxes. I still do it now.

User avatar
Focus On
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
Posts: 14164
Joined: 23 Dec 2004, 19:18
Location: Korova Milk Bar..Czechoslovakia

Re: Stock timelines

Postby Focus On » 30 May 2017, 12:54

Agree with all the above, my other hobby is the same, a certain car that dosent sell well but has already been produced in the thousands can and DOES appear over sometimes 6 box types, spanning literally 12 years i guess till stock runs out and the item is finally discontinued...this DOES NOT mean it appears as being available in catalogues for the same time span, only those where the car was deliberately being 'pushed' as a new item....dosent stop it turning up on shop shelves though in sometimes 'ill-fitting' packaging, not really meant for the car type in the first place, if you get my drift/waffle....
Bored to FLICK

User avatar
albertocollection
Semi-Pro
Posts: 308
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 12:04

Re: Stock timelines

Postby albertocollection » 30 May 2017, 14:06

Agree regarding the stocks, but, at the same time, as I have writen in other posts I disagree that rules don't exist. I can see some rules during the years. Obiously I can't recognize the period of all the teams but, very often , I am quite sure, for several reasons like bases, inners, molding of players, kind of painting etc etc etc a lot of them.
There are "hybrid (not the players...) teams" that might arrive in every time as a stock back to Subbuteo, found somewhere or sent back from a big store department. So might be born the overpainted teams or the teams with old bases, or old glue or whatelse.
But I remain firm in my idea regarding the bases and the inners (see another thread regarding the bases) and how they changed during the time.

Yes, long box where used in foreign country like Italy, Germany and Portugal for years after you used the small boxes only. But generally speaking they had different reference numbers like the ref 501 up to ref 529 in Italy, named box with stickers in Germany, printed named box in Portugal, Delacoste sticker in France. No maybe in France the small boxes arrived earlier than the rest of Europe... Maybe...
But boxes follow the rules like other Subbuteo teams. Generally speaking, the progression is: white OHW boxes, followed by the OHW boxes without stables, than with stables until, probably, 1969, than were indroded the folded boxes and the strange more or less, modern box with stables. After arrived the green box that all of us love, but the first had the footballer kicking from left to right, than in the right position, than Subbuteo changed to a modern footballer. Later, on the lid the word "redg." was replaced by a "R".
Than the small boxes were born after 1975-76 and after a couple of years the writing on box changed from Turnbridge wells to Chiddingstone.
Last arrived the small window box box !
I can see a progressione and , if you place a ref 211 inside a white OHW box... well something is wrong ! NO way !
You will never convince me that an OHW team can be found in a small window box. If this happen there is the "human factor" like Gullseye have just written.
Obiously, a ref 250 may be inserted in any small box (Turnbridge or Chiddingstone) and who care ? But may the same ref 250 be inserted inside a long box ? In my opionion NO, but it is my opinion and I am just a collector that during so many years have seen several teams, boxes and the combination of them.
In my opinion general rules exist for most of the Subbuteo production... I could say the 75%-80% of them.

User avatar
spudski
Grand Master
Posts: 2503
Joined: 14 May 2011, 17:42

Re: Stock timelines

Postby spudski » 30 May 2017, 14:40

Agree regarding the stocks, but, at the same time, as I have writen in other posts I disagree that rules don't exist. I can see some rules during the years. Obiously I can't recognize the period of all the teams but, very often , I am quite sure, for several reasons like bases, inners, molding of players, kind of painting etc etc etc a lot of them.
There are "hybrid (not the players...) teams" that might arrive in every time as a stock back to Subbuteo, found somewhere or sent back from a big store department. So might be born the overpainted teams or the teams with old bases, or old glue or whatelse.
But I remain firm in my idea regarding the bases and the inners (see another thread regarding the bases) and how they changed during the time.

Yes, long box where used in foreign country like Italy, Germany and Portugal for years after you used the small boxes only. But generally speaking they had different reference numbers like the ref 501 up to ref 529 in Italy, named box with stickers in Germany, printed named box in Portugal, Delacoste sticker in France. No maybe in France the small boxes arrived earlier than the rest of Europe... Maybe...
But boxes follow the rules like other Subbuteo teams. Generally speaking, the progression is: white OHW boxes, followed by the OHW boxes without stables, than with stables until, probably, 1969, than were indroded the folded boxes and the strange more or less, modern box with stables. After arrived the green box that all of us love, but the first had the footballer kicking from left to right, than in the right position, than Subbuteo changed to a modern footballer. Later, on the lid the word "redg." was replaced by a "R".
Than the small boxes were born after 1975-76 and after a couple of years the writing on box changed from Turnbridge wells to Chiddingstone.
Last arrived the small window box box !
I can see a progressione and , if you place a ref 211 inside a white OHW box... well something is wrong ! NO way !
You will never convince me that an OHW team can be found in a small window box. If this happen there is the "human factor" like Gullseye have just written.
Obiously, a ref 250 may be inserted in any small box (Turnbridge or Chiddingstone) and who care ? But may the same ref 250 be inserted inside a long box ? In my opionion NO, but it is my opinion and I am just a collector that during so many years have seen several teams, boxes and the combination of them.
In my opinion general rules exist for most of the Subbuteo production... I could say the 75%-80% of them.
I think you've misunderstood Alberto slightly. No one is saying New production will be found in old box's. Old stock however can be found in newer box's.

Of course you won't find teams produced in the mid to late 70's inside a box from the late 60's or early 70's.

But figures, bases and discs from the early 70's can be found in box's from the late 70's...but Figures, bases and discs produced from the late 70's cannot be found in early 70's box's...as this is physically impossible.

You are completely wrong to think teams like a ref 250 cannot be found in a Long Splash box. You will not find a ref 250 in a long splash box with a ref 250 sticker, but you could find one with a printed/typed name. There are so many examples of this around. Without looking through old photos, with respect, how would you explain the CUF and Sporting ( refs 274 and 277 )in the below link, if your theory is correct? It's obvious to see they are 100% correct.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=11351

lloydie1109
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
Posts: 1381
Joined: 02 Jan 2014, 09:27
Location: SHEFFIELD

Re: Stock timelines

Postby lloydie1109 » 30 May 2017, 14:59

What confuses English and Italian Collectors on this subject is the difference in the Quality Control done by SSG and The Parodi Family.
Here things were used and put in whatever was available back in the day.
Everything was sent to Genoa dismantled and The Parodi family were immaculate in their Quality Control and presentation, hence named boxes and certain teams being individualised by them, they put up to date teams in up to date boxes etc, in the UK this standard of QC was not used, hence why in the UK all the questions arise, as to whether this was done in certain boxes etc. Two separate markets with separate standards

User avatar
spudski
Grand Master
Posts: 2503
Joined: 14 May 2011, 17:42

Re: Stock timelines

Postby spudski » 30 May 2017, 15:05

What confuses English and Italian Collectors on this subject is the difference in the Quality Control done by SSG and The Parodi Family.
Here things were used and put in whatever was available back in the day.
Everything was sent to Genoa dismantled and The Parodi family were immaculate in their Quality Control and presentation, hence named boxes and certain teams being individualised by them, they put up to date teams in up to date boxes etc, in the UK this standard of QC was not used, hence why in the UK all the questions arise, as to whether this was done in certain boxes etc. Two separate markets with separate standards
Exactly Paul.

User avatar
albertocollection
Semi-Pro
Posts: 308
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 12:04

Re: Stock timelines

Postby albertocollection » 31 May 2017, 08:04

What confuses English and Italian Collectors on this subject is the difference in the Quality Control done by SSG and The Parodi Family.
Here things were used and put in whatever was available back in the day.
Everything was sent to Genoa dismantled and The Parodi family were immaculate in their Quality Control and presentation, hence named boxes and certain teams being individualised by them, they put up to date teams in up to date boxes etc, in the UK this standard of QC was not used, hence why in the UK all the questions arise, as to whether this was done in certain boxes etc. Two separate markets with separate standards
WOW !!! You have stopped any further speech ! Your analysis is absolutly perfect and probably really true.
My compliments, I didn't realized it.
how would you explain the CUF and Sporting ( refs 274 and 277 )
After years and years of collection I am convincing myself that the named box (stickered or printed) was a sorf of parallel market for Subbuteo, sending around Europe these teams, and creating special teams with the special order form in UK.
It's a pity that no one could explain us how the market worked in the seventees.

lloydie1109
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
ISF 2017-18 Subscriber
Posts: 1381
Joined: 02 Jan 2014, 09:27
Location: SHEFFIELD

Re: Stock timelines

Postby lloydie1109 » 31 May 2017, 08:49

In France Delacoste did what they wanted, producing teams, both football and rugby, a lot of the Distributors did this to satisfy their own markets.
For example Delacoste did Subbuteo Rugby teams just for France, five club sides and four National sides

User avatar
spudski
Grand Master
Posts: 2503
Joined: 14 May 2011, 17:42

Re: Stock timelines

Postby spudski » 31 May 2017, 09:40

What confuses English and Italian Collectors on this subject is the difference in the Quality Control done by SSG and The Parodi Family.
Here things were used and put in whatever was available back in the day.
Everything was sent to Genoa dismantled and The Parodi family were immaculate in their Quality Control and presentation, hence named boxes and certain teams being individualised by them, they put up to date teams in up to date boxes etc, in the UK this standard of QC was not used, hence why in the UK all the questions arise, as to whether this was done in certain boxes etc. Two separate markets with separate standards
WOW !!! You have stopped any further speech ! Your analysis is absolutly perfect and probably really true.
My compliments, I didn't realized it.
how would you explain the CUF and Sporting ( refs 274 and 277 )
After years and years of collection I am convincing myself that the named box (stickered or printed) was a sorf of parallel market for Subbuteo, sending around Europe these teams, and creating special teams with the special order form in UK.
It's a pity that no one could explain us how the market worked in the seventees.
I think a lot of the named teams, eventually ended up in the 1978 Catalogue Alberto.... Especially those found in the long splash box. It seems SSG were planning for this expansion way before 1978. Italy had it's 1976 'official' flyer catalogue with the 500 range...but like you say, you find the teams of Germany, Portugal and other lesser nations, that were put in the 1978 Catalogue in 'named' long box's way before 1978. Most likely as you say for those particular nations. I've found this to be the case by picking up named teams in the long splash box's from Germany, Portugal, Spain, Holland, Belgium, France even Scandinavia. Also...so many of the kits painted for the 1978 catalogue were actually worn in 1975/76.

For me...the period between 1974 and 1978 is quite blurred.

User avatar
MahlerOO5
Grand Master
Posts: 4576
Joined: 18 May 2008, 14:08

Re: Stock timelines

Postby MahlerOO5 » 31 May 2017, 11:25

LOL I remembered I had that CUF but had quite forgotten the Sporting in a named box.
HW teams needed- 237
OHW; 37,38
RugbyHW: 9,24,27,29,31,33,36 Celluloids: 28 green;39;55

User avatar
spudski
Grand Master
Posts: 2503
Joined: 14 May 2011, 17:42

Re: Stock timelines

Postby spudski » 31 May 2017, 11:36

LOL I remembered I had that CUF but had quite forgotten the Sporting in a named box.
Both lovely teams Steve...I'm waiting on getting my grubby mitts on these two at the moment. Both named long box's.
Attachments
sporting.jpg
sporting.jpg (111.89 KiB) Viewed 1429 times


Return to “General and Collecting Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 8 guests