Pro Table Soccer Association

The place for threads about playing tactics/techniques/rules etc.
lloydie1109
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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby lloydie1109 » 12 Mar 2016, 16:40

Spot on Ian, its rugby union/league in a way.

I am not sure but I think Paul Lamond was/is a FISTF/ETF player, Rich Pepper might know for sure

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby ralphtheclaret » 12 Mar 2016, 17:10

Wasn't the Netcam chap in charge of FISTF for a while ?

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby lloydie1109 » 12 Mar 2016, 17:12

Not sure been a lot of changes

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby ralphtheclaret » 12 Mar 2016, 17:13

FISTF and Subbuteo are so different...it's like comparing Snooker and Billiards.

Do Billiard players and associations go on Snooker forums and try to imply it's the same game? I just don't understand it.

What annoys me the most...is Subbuteo, the modern day company, associates itself with FISTF...the mind boggles.
They want us to play in their events Ian .... such that they can get more slidey points and then fall out with each other over who gets to represent England in slidey nudge and scrape tournaments ... sad really

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby ralphtheclaret » 12 Mar 2016, 17:15

Not sure been a lot of changes
Yes there has but one of the netcam chaps in Madrid was a FISTF bigwig ..

Always plenty of changes they can't get along with each other for longer than two or three months :lol!:

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby lloydie1109 » 12 Mar 2016, 17:46

On top of that there is WASPA, created by Vincent Coppenelle, madness too many outfits

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby Flash » 12 Mar 2016, 17:54

As a relative newbie, I have no interest in FISTF.

I have quite an interest in PTSA, as it seems fairly clear and straight forward, and there seems to be a pretty structured way of how to be involved.

I went on the England Subbuteo site recently, and while it has a page on there to become a member, it doesn't actually state anywhere the benefits of becoming a member, so I didn't bother.

I'd love to establish a club in my local area at some point, and will hopefully give it a go when I get a flickforkicks table.

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby spudski » 12 Mar 2016, 17:55

Spot on comments fella's...

The 'politics' involved are enough to put any newbie off...

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby algy » 12 Mar 2016, 18:29

I wouldn't say any of us had kittens about it or even knew anything about him .. as regards the mastering of obscure skills Algy ... how do you reconcile the fact that the game in it's original form was so much more popular during the time before the modernists chose to bypass the basics ? If the skills were so difficult to master why did so many play ? :
Just going on past experience - running leagues primarily aimed at young players from 1989-2006 - I would say that junior players were not as interested in being able to curl players as - as a few here have said - about trying to recreate football, including commentary, etc. Hell, we had match programmes until 1994 (later for cup finals - 1998? We stopped because it became impossible to run them for 40+ games per week) with team listings etc. We had a player transfer system including bank notes up to 2002. I get the imagination aspect. But, just in seeing people play the game, kids enjoyed playing with toccer figures more than lightweights.

Half of the reason the new figures came about was that, in tournaments, the lightweight figures were modified to a point where they were nothing like out-the-box figures anyway. The other reason was that in places like Denmark, Subbuteo figures simply weren't available. The only choice was for them to make their own, or buy the Swiss-produced ones. However much the state of affairs is twisted to say one thing or the other, the reality was that things had to happen. In my mind they went too far towards the 'abstract' direction, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater - as a game in most of Europe, it wouldn't exist now without FISTF.

Anyway, a lot of people on both sides of the FISTF divide have a great passion for the game, and want to see it to exist. It's better that we work together, to try and include everyone regardless of how seriously, or otherwise, they treat the playing side. WASPA was set up for that reason, and after some initial skepticism, I think it's one of the best things to happen to the game in years. Vincent Coppenolle is a true asset to the game, can't speak highly enough of him.

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby lloydie1109 » 12 Mar 2016, 18:51

Vincent is a true gent, but the word madness was aimed at there being another Association.
There should be one that caters for all in the Sports table Football world

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby ralphtheclaret » 12 Mar 2016, 19:05

Algy it isn't really a question of how seriously a player takes the game he chooses to play ... this is a common mistake FISTF players make when viewing our game.

You surely wouldn't get a Rugby Union player assuming that League players don't take their game seriously ? You lads have developed a different game with different rules and equipment ... it's a game that the vast majority on here choose not to play which joking aside doesn't make either side superior or "in the right" what it does mean is that we have two different codes.

I think it's the superior attitude from certain FISTF players (not your good self) that rankles with a lot of us ... WASPA looks like FISTF Division Two to me by the way ...completely pointless for Subbuteo players

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby lloydie1109 » 12 Mar 2016, 19:17

Great points Ralph,
2 separate games.

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby ralphtheclaret » 13 Mar 2016, 06:46

Wasn't the Netcam chap in charge of FISTF for a while ?
Piero Capponi is the chap I was thinking of

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby algy » 14 Mar 2016, 08:28

Algy it isn't really a question of how seriously a player takes the game he chooses to play ... this is a common mistake FISTF players make when viewing our game.
Well, I've played in both FISTF and OS events, and personally I find the most competitive FISTF events I've been to have a more 'serious' atmosphere than their OS counterparts. I've been to *a lot* of tournaments (200+). Happy to stand corrected though, maybe I've gone to the wrong OS events. I've been to far more FISTF ones than OS for sure, since to my knowledge OS didn't exist 20 years ago, at least in it's current form.

You see, we (Lichfield SC) played inter-club matches here, there, and everywhere. Some clubs did play by advanced rules. The home side effectively dictated the rules the matches would be played by. So when people say they're incompatible, I view that with a great deal of skepticism. With pool, different pubs have different house rules, but it's still pool. I honestly don't see what the issue is with having some events on a circuit as advanced rules and others as FISTF. Certainly my experience of playing Subbuteo has been that rules have been quite malleable.

Finally, WASPA. Well, back in 1997-2005 (on-off) we had the STF rankings in England. These included all events, roughly speaking international events were worth 10x National ones, which were worth 5x local leagues/regional events. The idea was basically the Same as WASPA, get people involved, get them organising leagues, encourage them to join in. I think, still, that it's a good system. But there was opposition to it from the 'top' players because they felt that it favoured weaker, but committed players too much. I disagree, but it does hint at what the problem is. WASPA sort of solves that issue by separating the two, and it does appear to work to some extent. It's better than what was in place, and less controversial than the STF method. I think it's a good thing, and it's a shame that it wasn't available 20+ years ago, cos a lot of our younger players would have lapped that idea up.

Interesting conversation, anyway :)

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Re: Pro Table Soccer Association

Postby ralphtheclaret » 19 Jun 2016, 08:39

Second event cancelled after five players entered .. so there you go.


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