Blocking Flick History

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BlackpoolRock
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Blocking Flick History

Postby BlackpoolRock » 28 Apr 2016, 08:31

Having been unable to obtain as many of the past versions of the Advanced Rules as I would have liked, over the past few months, please could someone help me with this one.

Sometime between the late sixties and the late seventies, the rules regarding the allocation of defensive, or "blocking" flicks were changed. They were no longer awarded in quotas of three, and were permitted all over the pitch. I assume that it was at the same rules update, the "Organising" of defence was withdrawn, along with the "Shooting" call.

My question is this: when blocking flicks were first permitted in all areas of the pitch, were there any further consequences for an infringement during the taking of them, (i.e. no more until attack passes back, ball out of play, goalkeeper intercepts etc.), or did the optional "back" become the only punishment for the defence's misdemeanor?

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lionofludesch
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby lionofludesch » 28 Apr 2016, 17:44

Yes, that was it, as far as I recall.

Blocking flicks made scores more realistic and gave the defender something to do when he wasn't in possession.
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby BlackpoolRock » 29 Apr 2016, 09:12

Thank you for your reply. The Organising rule was very useful, back in its day, although I must admit that I had forgotten about it until I started researching the history of the rules.

I think it could have a place in today's faster game, in return, possibly, for some restriction on blocking flicks. If organising was to be permitted at dead ball situations, for example, (although obviously not when defending a corner!), the time taken for this and any subsequent groups of offside flicks, would be worthwhile if it led to fewer 'blocking flick confusions', hold-ups and 'backs' at more crucial moments.

This is not an intention to say, "It was perfect in my day," but an idea to reduce the number of hold-ups due to artificial situations during a game.

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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby lionofludesch » 29 Apr 2016, 09:54

Rearranging your defence did help you get more players back behind the ball and help you play in the right direction. I'm not sure I'd bring it back - I prefer flicking to placing.
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby BlackpoolRock » 29 Apr 2016, 11:08

I accept your views, especially in the light of your greater experience.

I also have the utmost respect for any player whose flicking is accurate enough to organise their defenders this way! It sounds even more difficult than putting an attacking move of several passes together.

Thank you for your interest and advice.

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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby lionofludesch » 29 Apr 2016, 14:05

I accept your views, especially in the light of your greater experience.

I also have the utmost respect for any player whose flicking is accurate enough to organise their defenders this way! It sounds even more difficult than putting an attacking move of several passes together.

Thank you for your interest and advice.
It's just an opinion. Others may have opinions equally valid.

We talk about realism but the true reality is that the figures don't "funnel back" when they lose possession.

We play less than half the time of a soccer match, yet there are more goals. So defences do need help. How much help is a moot point.

In a way, cricket has the same problem. You need to have a balance between bat and ball. Over the years, laws have been changed where the games last less than the allocated number of days or where huge numbers of runs are scored so that there are too many draws.

In the same way, we need to have a balance between attack and defence. We don't want rugby scores. We don't want every game finishing 0-0, either.
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby ralphtheclaret » 19 May 2016, 12:08

The trouble with quite a few of the old rules is that they leave themselves open to way too much interpretation which can cause problems even when playing within your own circle .. I agree with Richard on this one .. I'm not in favour of placing or organising other than at a kick-off / goal kick.
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby BlackpoolRock » 19 May 2016, 22:14

Perhaps I didn't phrase my original question as well as I should have done.

The point I was trying to enquire about was whether there was any "future punishment" for a defensive flick infringement, from when they became allowed all over the pitch, and at all times, I believe, rather than in their original quotas of three. Was there an equivalent, if you like, to losing the remaining flicks until the attack "passed back" etc?

At the moment I have re-introduced "organising" into my solo league, as I'm playing to the sixties Advanced Rules, as best I can, and averaging about two goals per game. The reason for its return was that, in the first "season", I found that too many goals were scored when defenders, usually full-backs, went forward to join the attacks and the counter-attacks simply went through the space left behind. The organising seemed to be the easiest way to stop it from happening, and, for me at least, it has worked well.

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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby ralphtheclaret » 20 May 2016, 18:35

Well yes because under the advanced rules as listed on here in the case of a successful back appeal the player committing the infringement would lose the right to block should the action be replayed by the attacker.

Mind the Italian rules offer a (pointless in my view) differential between backs and moving backs regarding the right to block .
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby BlackpoolRock » 20 May 2016, 20:54

Thank you.

One aspect of the game I have discovered since joining this forum is that trying to follow the different rules, and their various interpretations is mind-boggling. For a while, at least, I've decided to stick with the Traditional Subbuteo Rules, mainly because they are familiar to me, and this old dog never was very good at learning new tricks.

Also, I think they are the best set suited for solo play; defensive flicks are still important here, as I the defending strategies form a valuable part of the game, imho, rather than simply having a certain number of stationary defenders to beat, even if that means each match has to last a little longer.

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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby ralphtheclaret » 21 May 2016, 10:09

You'll slowly drive yourself mad reading the different variations on the upside they are all much easier to understand on the baize rather than in written form
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby lionofludesch » 22 May 2016, 12:59

Imho, the ETSA rule was the best.

1. Ball hits defender which has stopped, play on, defender's ball.

2. Ball hits moving defender, replay the move, defender loses his block.

3. Defender hits ball or another figure, back.

Attacker can choose to play on, retaining possession but not restarting the flick count in cases 2 and 3.

All pretty clear cut, easy to referee, sensible outcomes.
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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby BlackpoolRock » 22 May 2016, 15:36

Now that makes sense; logical rule, logically phrased, and, even in "friendly" play, should be easy to sort out without upset.

Once again, thank you for your interest and information on the matter.

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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby lloydie1109 » 23 May 2016, 10:37

Now that makes sense; logical rule, logically phrased, and, even in "friendly" play, should be easy to sort out without upset.

Once again, thank you for your interest and information on the matter.
Nice to have met you yesterday, sent you a message with details etc

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Re: Blocking Flick History

Postby ralphtheclaret » 23 May 2016, 11:42

Imho, the ETSA rule was the best.

1. Ball hits defender which has stopped, play on, defender's ball.

2. Ball hits moving defender, replay the move, defender loses his block.

3. Defender hits ball or another figure, back.

Attacker can choose to play on, retaining possession but not restarting the flick count in cases 2 and 3.

All pretty clear cut, easy to referee, sensible outcomes.
Yes
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