"Old Subbuteo"

The place for threads about playing tactics/techniques/rules etc.
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lionofludesch
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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby lionofludesch » 24 Jan 2017, 17:44

Basically Ralph, according to some Italian friends of mine, at events some people want all the entrants to use the same type of team, and other do not. Instead of leaving up to the various event hosts, some factions have thrown their toys out of the pram, shame, as there is virtually no such game/sport or whatever words are suitable, that have the same equipment
Bearing in mind this is about Old Subbuteo and not allowing low profile modern bases, I find this turn in the thread a little bizarre.

At the end of the day, it's about creating an even competition. Every sport has its regulations about equipment.

I'm minded of a scene in one of the St Trinian's fillums.

Hockey captain : This is our goal.

New Games Mistress : Isn't it smaller than the other goal?

Hockey captain : Yes.

New Games Mistress : But you'll have the other goal in the second half.

Hockey Captain : There never is a second half.
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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby lloydie1109 » 24 Jan 2017, 18:48

It will have to be OS Hockey then

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spudski
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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby spudski » 07 Feb 2017, 19:02

Basically Ralph, according to some Italian friends of mine, at events some people want all the entrants to use the same type of team, and other do not. Instead of leaving up to the various event hosts, some factions have thrown their toys out of the pram, shame, as there is virtually no such game/sport or whatever words are suitable, that have the same equipment
Bearing in mind this is about Old Subbuteo and not allowing low profile modern bases, I find this turn in the thread a little bizarre.

At the end of the day, it's about creating an even competition. Every sport has its regulations about equipment.

I'm minded of a scene in one of the St Trinian's fillums.

Hockey captain : This is our goal.

New Games Mistress : Isn't it smaller than the other goal?

Hockey captain : Yes.

New Games Mistress : But you'll have the other goal in the second half.

Hockey Captain : There never is a second half.
The reason the Oldsubuteo rules are like they are, is so that they can replicate things as they were as kids...played with a certain spirit.

They don't want players looking for ways of finding an advantage...ie DUX bases. It goes against the philosophy.

It's about turning up with the same equipment and having fun.

Not about trying to find ways of beating your opponent by looking for bases that perform differently.

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Gullseye
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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby Gullseye » 07 Feb 2017, 21:23

Pitches covered in fake snow, model trees for goal posts, stretching over stands 2 feet high, using corner kickers and the throw in figure, these are all part of the wonderful world of " Old Subbuteo"". Well it is in Southend.

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby lloydie1109 » 08 Feb 2017, 10:41

Pitches covered in fake snow, model trees for goal posts, stretching over stands 2 feet high, using corner kickers and the throw in figure, these are all part of the wonderful world of " Old Subbuteo"". Well it is in Southend.
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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby lloydie1109 » 08 Feb 2017, 10:44

[

The reason the Oldsubuteo rules are like they are, is so that they can replicate things as they were as kids...played with a certain spirit.

They don't want players looking for ways of finding an advantage...ie DUX bases. It goes against the philosophy.

It's about turning up with the same equipment and having fun.

Not about trying to find ways of beating your opponent by looking for bases that perform differently.
[/quote]


So true Ian, the equipment issue is one that has no ending, due to the different bases produced by SSG.
An OS event with all entrants using the same equipment is great, like Stoke will be.

I do though, love to watch matches where different players use different figures/bases, flats v walkers etc

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby ralphtheclaret » 08 Feb 2017, 11:46

The dux bases bear more than a passing resemblance to those that were provided with the moulded teams we associate with box sets ? So those who like to make rules in their quest to define oldsubbuteo are in effect placing a ban on bases that were produced by Subbuteo for years and years ..... I can't begin to see the sense in that.
Last edited by ralphtheclaret on 08 Feb 2017, 12:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby ralphtheclaret » 08 Feb 2017, 12:05

Councils and associations - empire builders ... and guess what they've fallen out what a surprise ...

As for Dux bases ? I'd wager that most of us here in England have never really taken much notice of the difference or indeed ever thought to look for it.

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby spudski » 08 Feb 2017, 15:28

'Dux' bases are nothing like the bases you get with moulded teams Ralph. Completely different.

The profile is lower, and the thickness of the plastic seems to be thicker. You can see the difference on the edge where the base joins the inner disc.

It was an imperfection is the processing...a few came out that way...not intentional.

Hence the Oldsubbuteo crew thinking, lets concentrate on playing the game, rather than looking for 'DuX' bases to give an 'unfair' advantage.

I can understand their reasoning.

As for looking for them...yes I used to, as they are easier to play with. Then I came to my senses, and thought 'what the hell am I doing?...I might as well play Fistf, if I'm trying to find bases within the rules that are easier'.

It went against the whole ethos. ;-)

And Lloydie...if I can make Stoke, I will...it's just going to have to be a last minute decision. Taking each day as it comes at the moment and not committing to anything...'rents a bit poorly, so having to look after them ;-)

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby lloydie1109 » 08 Feb 2017, 15:50

There will be a place for you no matter what.

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spudski
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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby spudski » 08 Feb 2017, 19:04

Cheers mate :-)

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby ralphtheclaret » 09 Feb 2017, 06:55

I was referring to the profile rather than the base footprint something which in regard to the moulded figures has been spotted by others on this very forum .. to be honest I think it's a red herring if you are playing to advanced rules it takes away the worst aspects of FISTF play in any case.

I think it's ridiculous for the Italians to ban bases that were available off the shelf in the halcyon days ...it's a bit like oldsubbuteo events that don't allow flats ..Where's the logic in that ? how do you doctor a two piece figure I wonder ? Makes me laugh "oh no we don't like those impossible to use flats but you can't use them either " .. right okay :)

People should be able to use their own teams you don't turn up to play football on a Saturday to be told everyone will be given an identical pair of boots at 2.50 pm ? I want to play against players who are playing to their best ability or what's the point ? no point travelling miles to play against someone hampered by the equipment ? - giving everyone identical equipment doesn't always make for a level playing field what it actually does is reduce everyone to a common denominator ... a level playing field allows players to play to their full potential ?

Where's the enjoyment in winning a game when you can see full well that the other player isn't happy with his figures ?

I've arrived at the theory that I don't mind what bases or figures I play against I think the key difference between the codes comes from the playing rules ?

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby ralphtheclaret » 09 Feb 2017, 07:29

Taken to it's logical extreme heavyweight figures and all copies of same should be banned in OS events because their footprint and profile is nothing like that of the original figures and the extra weight gives players using such figures an advantage ? :) :) :)

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby spudski » 09 Feb 2017, 09:03

I obviously misunderstood your original post regarding DuX bases then Ralph. :-) No problem mate.

As with everything you can't please everyone fella. I'm the opposite to you, I prefer to see both players using the same equipment. That's why I like themed events, where the organisers produce the teams for the players to use. Flats v Flats... HW's v HW's etc. It's also more aesthetically pleasing in my eyes.

I suppose rules have to be implied and can't keep changing for the personal whims of players. And it's inevitable some will moan and be unhappy.

It's a bit like Snooker players saying I can only play if I use a Pool tip on my cue.
A table tennis player, squash player, Tennis player...saying they need bigger and lighter rackets, bats.
A footballer saying he needs spikes not studs etc,etc,etc.

As I tried to imply in my original post. There is nothing wrong with DuX or moulded bases...it's the actual searching for them. Trying to seek an 'unfair' advantage. A base that was a mistake, but has a lower profile, so easier to chip the ball and not topple. All that does, is take away the skills required to play the game. You may as well say...'let lower profile bases be played with, like in Fistf'. It takes away from the whole ethos of the oldsubbuteo community.

I know friends who don't bother so much with it in Italy now. Mainly because it's not how it used to be. It's still a great way to play Subbuteo imo, because of the 'relaxed' aspect to it all. It's only a few of the vocal minority, who want to be chiefs rather than Indians, and take the game way too seriously, that have caused ripples. And this goes back quite a few years now, to an extent to them even starting their own new forum.

Tbh...I've never known a game, cause so much disharmony in the ranks. So many people want to be in charge and tell others what to do. It's almost like they are taking all their frustrations from the 'real world' of being nobody, and lording it over others in a very small bubble.

You can tell the people who have more important things to worry about, they just let it wash over them, chill and relax, and laugh at grown men getting their knickers in a twist over a game. ;-)

Hope all that makes sense...and taken in the good natured manner it was intended ;-)

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Re: "Old Subbuteo"

Postby lloydie1109 » 09 Feb 2017, 09:15

Subbuteo has so many SSG produced bases/figures etc, a player will find one that they prefer, I have always preferred the walkers, used them for 45 years etc, other people prefer different figures. I do not use the walkers for any other reason than they suit me.

The Top Spin Dux bases are superb, but are not like the the Original SSG ones in many ways, thicker, heavier and better balanced, so as far as OS goes, maybe a bit out of sync.

Four months ago I did 98 teams for an event in Italy, a mixture of Top Spin HW and Dux, and a player using HW won.

Themed events are great as are all other OS events, providing the mental and equipment ethos is there, play the game, without politics, and it is twice if not more better


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