Some Original Defence Rules

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BlackpoolRock
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Some Original Defence Rules

Postby BlackpoolRock » 21 Jul 2017, 11:42

Please could any Rules' historians explain the intention and interpretation of this one?

The Advanced Rules, possibly the earliest ones, from the 1950 Handbook contain this, under the heading, "Position of Defence . . ."

It goes on to say, "When the attack is in possession, two defending figures may be flicked into any position required, in order that they may intercept any passing movements of the attacking side...."

It does not say when these flicks are permitted, or whether they can, or must, be taken in the same turn.

Obviously these rules were designed for the longer game, played with flats, and at a more leisurely pace, than today's faster games, and I assume that when any flicks were requested, the attacking player would stop and allow them to be taken, before continuing. I would think it was therefore permissible, for the defender to wait until a shot was about to be taken before requesting two blocking flicks. Is this the reason for the introduction of the "Shooting" rule later on, as well as the regulated slots for defensive flicks in the later rules?

It's also interesting, (to me at any rate), that there was no "Organising" rule back then, so defensive positioning must have had to be very precise.

It would be good to know, especially from anyone who has seen or played games with these early rules, how they were applied, and worked.

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby Gullseye » 21 Jul 2017, 16:47

Anyone who played by those rules would have to be at least in their 70's by now. I have all the old rule books and from reading the extract you refer to, I suspect that you could take the defensive flicks when you wished. In practice you would probably wait until an attacking flick was made and then respond. It does also go on to state that if you hit the ball when making the flick, the ball has to be replaced where it was to the advantage of the attacker and no further defensive flicks can be made during that attack.

The Shooting line was at first a suggestion in later rules to chalk a line across 11 inches from the goal line, before it was printed on later pitches.

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby BlackpoolRock » 21 Jul 2017, 17:53

Thank you, Gullseye, for your reply. I realise that these rules are from way back, but I wondered if they may have been used in any more recent flats tournaments, or whether there may, still, be any enthusiasts who combine playing with the original playing figures with the original, (and purest?) rules of the game.

The replacement of ball, etc. and loss of remaining flicks for infringements was, of course, continued into the later editions when the Continental editions arrived on the market, which is where most of the current traditionalists, myself included, came in.

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby Gullseye » 21 Jul 2017, 18:20

I've not heard of any tournaments going back to the original 1950's rules that are still playing now. Ralph would probably be the best person on here to answer as he plays tournaments and uses flats.

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby Number9 » 23 Jul 2017, 09:28

I get the feeling that there was a struggle in the early formulation of the game to get a balance between attack and defence - this must have been a very early attempt. I personally believe that the early game was 'turn based' , but eventually youthful impatience and exuberance led to 'getting as many block flicks in as quickly as you can' to become the accepted way to play quite early - the earlier rules are not explicit about it, so it is open to interpretation.
I think turn-based play continued in Finland, but don't know if there are any tournaments played like that. I haven't heard of any in the UK
I have played the 50 minute game on a turn based approach with Mr R Claret in the past as an experiment - it was a leisurely affair and very much more like snooker in the atmosphere it engendered.
I use an adaptation of the early rules playing solo - as they are pre-adapted to it, and because I like having time to think about each flick.
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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby BlackpoolRock » 23 Jul 2017, 10:50

Thank you, Number9.

I also believe the turn-based play is best, even if not always taken alternately, with the phrases, "Take careful aim, do not hurry," symbolising what the game was all about.

On the occasions when I have played solo to seventies' rules, the 'house rule' was always that whenever a pass touched a player from the same team, the play was considered to have been very quick, so no defensive flick after that turn. It made a successful "long ball" tactic lethal, but it was simply an attempt to adapt turn-based play to the 'new' rules.

The reason I posted the question was whether the rulemakers may have envisaged the possibility of a defender, either through being permitted or simply opting, to take the two blocking flicks as the attacker was about to shoot, thus producing a hold-up in the game at the very time the drama should be unfolding quickly. Could this have led to the later modifications?

As you stated at the start, it's all about the balance between attack and defence, plus the pace and duration of the game.

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby ralphbfc » 24 Jul 2017, 19:00

I've not heard of any tournaments going back to the original 1950's rules that are still playing now. Ralph would probably be the best person on here to answer as he plays tournaments and uses flats.
ETSA / ETF rules in flats events gents

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby Johnny Reb » 06 Oct 2017, 21:48

I played last weekend mainly using "flats". This was the 1st TSPA event of the year played in Wickford, Essex.
The playing surface was "Swiss " pitch, which is Snooker/billiard cloth, not dissimilar to "Baize".
I played the first 2 games with the slidey bases and switched to the "flats for the remainder of the event, and really enjoyed my remaining matches without conceding a goal. (plate final 0-0 draw)
Love playing flats, it's almost as good as scoring a goal when that special curl hits the mark!
TSPA use ETF rules, very similar to Advanced rules, but with the "Continental" ball (25mm dia) (opps's 1" ball....Brexit an all)
I believe the "I go U go" game long ago disappeared, but the old rules still have the charm of a "Chess" like game played in bygone days, great for solo play though :)

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby BlackpoolRock » 07 Oct 2017, 08:26

Fantastic to learn that that a team of "flats" can compete and match teams 'kitted out' with the latest designs.

I found a box set containing flats at a local toy fair back in May, and it didn't take me long to become 'hooked'. Couldn't agree more that the chess/snooker like conditions of the original game are not just ideal for solo play, but also provide accuracy and tactics a greater importance to speed and power.

The line, from from the old rule books, "Take careful aim, do not hurry," still has much to be said for it, imho.

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby ralphtheclaret » 07 Oct 2017, 17:54

Absolutely

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby lloydie1109 » 08 Oct 2017, 17:04

I played last weekend mainly using "flats". This was the 1st TSPA event of the year played in Wickford, Essex.
The playing surface was "Swiss " pitch, which is Snooker/billiard cloth, not dissimilar to "Baize".
I played the first 2 games with the slidey bases and switched to the "flats for the remainder of the event, and really enjoyed my remaining matches without conceding a goal. (plate final 0-0 draw)
Love playing flats, it's almost as good as scoring a goal when that special curl hits the mark!
TSPA use ETF rules, very similar to Advanced rules, but with the "Continental" ball (25mm dia) (opps's 1" ball....Brexit an all)
I believe the "I go U go" game long ago disappeared, but the old rules still have the charm of a "Chess" like game played in bygone days, great for solo play though :)
Those Swiss pitches are superb John, totally agree with all you say, will see you at Renishaw next week

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby lionofludesch » 20 Oct 2017, 17:37

It annoys me, when playing with flats, when some uneducated opponent thinks you've missed, not realising that the figure will come back and hit the ball after completing a couple of orbits. :angry:
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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby ralphtheclaret » 20 Oct 2017, 17:52

It annoys me, when playing with flats, when some uneducated opponent thinks you've missed, not realising that the figure will come back and hit the ball after completing a couple of orbits. :angry:
very true :lol:

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Re: Some Original Defence Rules

Postby BlackpoolRock » 20 Oct 2017, 21:01

As a recent convert, I agree. Learning to attempt to control these characters after they've kicked the ball also adds a new dimension and challenge, whether in attack or defence.

Must also say, although I've never played competitively, I'm surprised that any player, in the traditional game, even considers flicking for the ball until all movement has stopped.


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