7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

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lloydie1109
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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 09 Jul 2016, 14:36

Also the Subbuteo Players Forum has been shut down

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 10 Jul 2016, 06:41

Yes it has, due to lack of interest sadly.
The initial mistake there on the part of the organisers being trying to introduce a further elitist element into a game that already suffers badly from self delusion.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 10 Jul 2016, 06:47

Also the Subbuteo Players Forum has been shut down
A strange old forum whereby at one time the very mention of actually playing subbuteo would almost get you your head in your hands.
One day in the not too distant future the FISTF game will die in the UK and when it does they'll all wonder what happened to it and where they went wrong ... it might survive in Kent where the men who count know how to run things with an eye to the future.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 10 Jul 2016, 08:39

Also the Subbuteo Players Forum has been shut down
A strange old forum whereby at one time the very mention of actually playing subbuteo would almost get you your head in your hands.
One day in the not too distant future the FISTF game will die in the UK and when it does they'll all wonder what happened to it and where they went wrong ... it might survive in Kent where the men who count know how to run things with an eye to the future.
Its not a case of FISTF declining, its more a case of Social Media being used more

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 10 Jul 2016, 09:04

It's declining no doubt.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 10 Jul 2016, 09:22

Not to the extent of passing away, events are there and well attended at times

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 11 Jul 2016, 09:57

I know what you mean , but I do think in all fairness that a well represented major with a lot of continental visitors and a high number of veteran UK players masks a distinct lack of UK based Open age and Youth players .. aside from the worthy efforts of Kent little progress has been made in attracting youth players to what the FISTF players term their "sport" ... inevitably therefore that "sport" is declining as the existing players age.

Mr Lilley has obviously tried to bring in some ideas from his other sphere's of interest which you can't knock him for but I would have predicted this would happen ... for a sport to prosper you need a clearly defined method of attracting participants ... and for that you need a clearly defined organisation running that sport with a youth policy and so on


They don't have one in the UK. ... some groups knocked the company in the past for concentrating on sales to children but guess what ? We all know the company was right because that is where 99% of people's initial interest in this game/sport/hobby comes from .. childhood.

No kids - no future.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 11 Jul 2016, 11:00

NO Kids, is only down to the product not being in shops, and of course computer games.
the FISTF game is okay in the UK, many active clubs, some new, playing.
I understand what you say Ralph, but subbuteo has many outlets today in various formats, all are small but the game is still here.
the failure of the PTSA is not a failure on the FISTF version of the game, it was one mans project

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 11 Jul 2016, 11:34

If no kids is down to the lack of Subbuteo product in the shops how have Kent bucked the trend ? Computer games are a consideration no doubt but you can apply that to a lot of sports/hobbies/pastimes.

How is the FISTF game in the UK "okay" .. how many people have tried running the ESA over the past six years and walked away through lack of support and/ or in fighting including Mr Lilley ?

Why is the FISTF game so much more popular abroad ?

The answer is simply that not enough of the existing players either care or have the time to do anything about it ... and those that do get the rug pulled out from under their feet.

Self Interest mate that's all that crosses the mind of the majority.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 11 Jul 2016, 12:22

The biggest problem in the UK is getting someone to organise things and events, many what to play but very few will do the leg work.
that has always been the issue in the UK. I used to head the ESA and most of the communications I got where moans, its always been the same.

In Europe big, clubs are run in a proper way, whether they be FISTF or OS, where they have fantastic people willing to do the hard work for others to enjoy playing.
Here as I say very, very few people are prepared to do that work, but many want/expect the benefits, its as simple as that.

In the past, Waddingtons staged and paid for numerous promotional events to get youngsters playing, that is not done today.

I know very many dozens of people who play the game in various formats, they do not play in events, but play the game.
Tournaments are no where near a true measuring tool as to how many people play the game.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 11 Jul 2016, 13:57

I'm not disputing that but I seriously doubt that very many play to FISTF rules unless they are a part of that tournament circuit .. why learn/ use FISTF rules otherwise ?

The biggest problem with the current ESA is that when they have someone doing the leg work too many of the others complain about how things are organised .. in other words they spend a lot of time falling out over Tables/England selection/venues/costs/food/who should be eligible to play for certain teams etc etc etc add infinitum ..... to the point where most players don't want to know ..

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 11 Jul 2016, 14:23

I'm not disputing that but I seriously doubt that very many play to FISTF rules unless they are a part of that tournament circuit .. why learn/ use FISTF rules otherwise ?

The biggest problem with the current ESA is that when they have someone doing the leg work too many of the others complain about how things are organised .. in other words they spend a lot of time falling out over Tables/England selection/venues/costs/food/who should be eligible to play for certain teams etc etc etc add infinitum ..... to the point where most players don't want to know ..
Thats been the case for years and will continue to be so.

There are many people I know who play FISTF rules but do not enter events.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 11 Jul 2016, 15:17

I bet there's a good number more who've never heard of FISTF in fact I'm sure of it.

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby ralphtheclaret » 11 Jul 2016, 15:49

I'd wager that if you could find 100 random UK Subbuteo enthusiasts to ask 10% or less would have heard of FISTF

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Re: 7th May 2016 | PTSA Pro Tour - Stage 1 - Manchester

Postby lloydie1109 » 11 Jul 2016, 17:31

Same can be said of the letters OS, ETF etc, people play all sorts in their own homes.


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