Heavyweight Player Bars

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Pablo73
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Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Pablo73 »

Evening All!
I have a question regarding heavyweight bars. Would an original team all be on the same bars? The reason I ask is that I have a team with 6 players with white bars and 4 of the brownish tint. The paint job appears identical on all and I have noticed this on a numerous teams but wondered what the expert view is regarding this. Can an original team have different bar colours? Knowing subbuteo it would not surprise me but if anyone can shed any light on this subject that would be great.
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krama
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by krama »

What team is it?
As you probably know, they were moulded in either white or skin tone and which was ever the easiest to paint were used. ie a 21 for example used white and just skin hair and boots painted on.
It could be that you have a genuine mixture depending on the team.
Pablo73
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Pablo73 »

Hi Krama,
Thanks so much for your kind reply as it really is appreciated! It’s Brazil in a named box from around 1970 according to Peter Upton. There is not a scintilla of difference in the players from a paint perspective and subbuteo is written exactly the same way on all players. I have a later Brazil with green bases and yellow inners that are solely on white bars but I have seen teams that look genuine with different bars in. White ones and the flesh ones you described. The mixed bars team do look perfect apart from the difference in bars in the set.
Many thanks and keep well!
Kind regards
Silverfox63
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Silverfox63 »

Chances are it is a paint overbleed or a discolouration caused by the pigment in the paint on the boots when mixed with the glue that holds them in place.

Strangely the black boots tend to cause a purpleish discolouration from time to time and the brown boots sometimes red through to maroon.
Take a closer look at how the figures are glued in that may give you some clues.

Also bear in mind that they were handpainted en-masse by the outworkers, and with any process there may have been a small over paint or paint on the outworkers fingers when assembling them.

I had a ref 81 (Liverpool away kit) that had a perfect fingerprint in black on the reverse of the figure, a quirky feature that proved they were indeed handpainted.

Hope that helps
Pablo73
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Pablo73 »

That’s absolutely superb Krama! Cannot thank you enough for helping me out in this! Your 81 sounds absolutely superb, a true one off! I am looking for one myself in excellent condition but so are many other reds! My 41’s are so lovey I will not play with them! Once again though thanks so much for taking the time to reply, it’s very kind to give your time and as I say, really appreciated!
Take good care!
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krama
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by krama »

Pablo73 wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 22:21 That’s absolutely superb Krama! Cannot thank you enough for helping me out in this! Your 81 sounds absolutely superb, a true one off! I am looking for one myself in excellent condition but so are many other reds! My 41’s are so lovey I will not play with them! Once again though thanks so much for taking the time to reply, it’s very kind to give your time and as I say, really appreciated!
Take good care!

The 81 belongs to silverfox Pablo, not me! :wink:
Johnteddy
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Johnteddy »

I've worked on Piece work and when your bills depend on it you do whatever it takes to hit your targets. a white moulded player mistakenly painted with a flesh moulded player would be acceptable to me though probably not by those employed as quality control constantly trying to win back the companies bonus payment lol.Though i would think with subbuteo quality control may not be too concerned.
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krama
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by krama »

Johnteddy wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 09:41 Though i would think with subbuteo quality control may not be too concerned.
Quality control at this particular time, were the actual outworkers themselves. They were skilled painters and assessed by the Outworkers Manager, Ken Bridges. If they were not up to the job, they would be on their bike. However they were also humans and mistakes were made and some shoddy work obviously slipped through the net. No pun intended! PA himself would, from time to time, would inspect batches of painting, so he was then quality control and he would have been very concerned if bad work was produced and investigate the source himself. You would not have lasted five minutes I have to say! :lol!:
The outworkers for the sticking and assembly of figures, on the other hand, were not as closely monitored but were still very dedicated people, despite being paid a pittance for their work. I spent many a happy school holiday going on the van with a chap called Bill Ollie who delivered and collected the sticking. Even stopping for a tea and biscuit with some of the ladies...I never reported that back, even when PA gave me a brown pay packet with cash in it! :lol!:
Pablo73
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Pablo73 »

Absolutely superb the stuff above Krama. Hopefully I’ve got it right last time after not crediting the silver🦊! What absolutely fascinates me is the sheer quality of what was effectively a mass production scale operation being produced by a cottage industry of out workers aka artists.
Pablo73
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Pablo73 »

Not sure why the fox is so large! I am concerned 😁
Pablo73
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Pablo73 »

No more emojis
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krama
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by krama »

Thanks Pablo, I agree...the hand painting was of a good quality considering it was done by ladies earning pin money. That I believe was done in part by the fact Ken Bridges ran a tight ship in the painting dept. PA's overseeing of the whole operation and also a very big factor being that the outworkers actually enjoyed working for Subbuteo and were proud of the fact. Decades later the ladies always spoke fondly of their time painting and sticking for Subbuteo!
Sadly, after PA sold up to Waddingtons, and the figures eventually went to be machine painted, it was never the same again.
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krama
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by krama »

Apologies, double post! :-\ :-\
Last edited by krama on 08 May 2021, 12:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Ralph1
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Re: Heavyweight Player Bars

Post by Ralph1 »

I think in all fairness there was a marked depreciation in quality when the management changed .. the OHWs and in my experience the opening years of the classic HWs (so 68/71 ish ) are of a noticeably better quality paint and base wise than the post 72/3 heavyweights .. many of the late production HWs were dreadful ..

Just my opinion .. mind you I’m not one for spending on heavyweights the warping bases would worry me ... given the investment required these days those bases have to be a problem going forward ?
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