Questions for Mark Adolph (Krama)

[krama]

Yeah straight from the store at Upper Birchetts, I did get the boxes sometimes, but a lot of the teams I got never made it that far to actually be put in their boxes! Just helped myself to ten players, with permission of course!, from the large plastic plastic bags which had come back from the outworkers having been painted and glued and were waiting to go into boxes. That all stopped sadly when Waddingtons got involved, and everything was moved to Leeds!!

[hargy]

Mark, I thought of a couple more, if I may.

Were the outworkers all local to Tonbridge Wells? There must have been hundreds!

Who came up with the concept for cricket and rugby, their rules and the notion of using a scrum machine? Was there a product development team?

[krama]

Hi hargy,
yes pretty much all local to TW, maybe at a guess, a 15/20 mile radius. That was both painting and sticking which were separate operations. T o my knowledge no one did both, but i stand to be corrected on that!
PA was the concept for the Cricket, but I believe that Sammy , Geoffrey Samson, the sales director had a lot of input with the Rugby and he was the one who had the idea of the scrummer.
Not sure if there was a product development team or not tbh. Maybe PA was his own product development team, as I seem to remember him often running ideas past me, really as a by the way over dinner or something like that!!!

[HPL17]

Never thought of gathering some people with funds, try to buy a license and do something like the la leggenda teams in the UK? I would imagine it can be a massive success. Re-run of some of the rare teams from the cataligue mixed up with a few new teams... One can only dream...

[krama]

Nah, couldn't be bothered in truth. Let others do that if they wish.

[hargy]

Hi hargy,
yes pretty much all local to TW, maybe at a guess, a 15/20 mile radius. That was both painting and sticking which were separate operations. T o my knowledge no one did both, but i stand to be corrected on that!
PA was the concept for the Cricket, but I believe that Sammy , Geoffrey Samson, the sales director had a lot of input with the Rugby and he was the one who had the idea of the scrummer.
Not sure if there was a product development team or not tbh. Maybe PA was his own product development team, as I seem to remember him often running ideas past me, really as a by the way over dinner or something like that!!!

Very interesting. Football is fairly straightforward, I'd say, when it comes to replicating in a table-top version. But cricket and especially rugby are quite a bit more complicated. Yet, for me, both games are very close to the real experience. They seem to get a lot of negative comment and many people comment that they are difficult to play or unplayable. But they are actually not. With a bit of imagination and understanding both games can be played realistically.

I played a lot of both as a kid, more cricket than rugby, and in the last year have revisited them both and spent some enjoyable time during the drab Canadian winter months. I've even developed my own modifications to the original rugby rules to "modernize" the game and made a bunch of videos now on YouTube (not intended as a shameless plug but there you go ), to demonstrate how the game works.

I honestly think that PA and his 'team' did a great job in creating both. No-one else has really come close. It's a big virtual "Thank You" and "Well Done" from me

[krama]

Thank you Hargy, nice to here that you actually enjoy the cricket and rugby games, as you say with most people, and I must include myself in this, Subbuteo is really all about the football, and is seen as the flagship product. Personally speaking, I am not that interested in "real" cricket and rugby, so maybe that is my personal issue as to why I haven't really warmed to either of the Subbuteo versions. I used to tinker with the cricket at times back in the day, but never ever got close to opening a rugby game!

[Subbuteolover9614]

I see you that H/w is your preferred figure but did you ever play with flat figures?

[krama]

I did yes, have a few flat teams which are now sadly incomplete. Loved the way they played and spun! My only complete flat team, up to a few months ago, was a 55 Anderlecht. I decided to sell it as wanted someone else to enjoy and own it, rather than it being stuffed away in my loft and ignored! It went to a completist collector of purely celly's. I think he was chuffed to get it.

[Subbuteolover9614]

Yeah it is probably the most sought after with bases. I take it you never was a fan of the zombie,lw etc.

[krama]

Cannot say was never a fan, i've never ever played with them tbh. Only a few months ago I bought a team of Zuego on profibases, Hated the fact that there is no spin. I knew they wouldnt, but wanted try it for myself. Promply sold it on again . Aesthetically speaking though I prefer the hw's.

[Subbuteolover9614]

I agree in terms of subbuteo Hw's are king followed by the Ohw. Both ooze charm

[algy]

Hi Mark

Just wondering, what was the general feelings on the Table Soccer Players Association (TSPA) within the Adolph household? Was it seen as generally a good thing for the game to be sport-ified? (Was going to add FISTF there, but I know the FISTF rule changes are somewhat more contentious than the TSPA ones!)

Btw, I'm with you (and your dad) - 10mins each way is absolutely the right length for a game of Subbuteo

[algy]

Cannot say was never a fan, i've never ever played with them tbh. Only a few months ago I bought a team of Zuego on profibases, Hated the fact that there is no spin. I knew they wouldnt, but wanted try it for myself. Promply sold it on again . Aesthetically speaking though I prefer the hw's.

FWIW, with the Profibases (I guess with other similar ones, e.g. astrobase) the best models for curling are C1, C4, or C7*. I have an old set of C7s at home, and they're great for that - play very much like a set of LW figures that've been sanded down and are a bit better at chipping the ball. They feel very familiar for someone who played FISA-rules Subbuteo in the early 90s!


* or B1, B4, or B7 for sports figure-type curling ... better than HWs for short range curls (<2"), but *much* weaker at longer ranges.

[Subbuteolover9614]

HI Mark Whate was the address of the Birthplace of Subbuteo in Langton green. I know the Warwick factory one and chiddingstone Causeway but one that alluded me is the birthplace one. As i live locally i would one day like to go find it. Also know the paddock wood one as thats only 5 minutes away.